I understand that mind is involved as a focus of attention for seeing, but I don’t understand what people mean when they say that mind “has to be informed” for delusions to collapse. When I look back at every breakthrough realization this body/mind had, the only common precipitating factors that seem applicable are (1) mind concluding that attention should be shifted (2) ATA and (3) questioning (inquiry). Every single realization seemed to happen "out of the blue," and the only thing I was doing differently than in the past was attending. In the past I had been primarily thinking and questioning. The questioning was mind-oriented; it was not contemplation (at least not on a conscious level).
The first breakthrough experience occurred after several months of ATA (about three hours per day) and three nights of deep samadhi triggered by ATA. The experience resulted in several immediate realizations that were monumental.
The second breakthrough arose mysteriously after two days of intense ATA at a silent Zen retreat. A koan spontaneously arose and precipitated an emotional experience accompanied by, or resulting in, a significant realization.
The third breakthrough arose as a result of an assault on ego and understanding that occurred in an interview with a teacher. That encounter generated a huge koan that did strange things to the body (constricted it violently) before a mind collapse occurred that triggered a simultaneous emotional release and realization.
The fourth breakthrough occurred literally "out of the blue." A powerful thought was suddenly seen to be a fantasy separating the body/mind from the truth of "what is."
All of the other breakthroughs occurred similarly, so there never seemed to be any mind involvement at all. It was as if the ATA was causing a collapsing of thought structures from the inside out.
BK recommends examining thoughts using the following approach:
1. Is the thought true?
2. Can you know absolutely that the thought is true?
3. How would you feel without the thought?
4. Turn the thought around, and consider various alternatives to the thought.
An example might be someone who thinks, "I need his love to be happy." Even if the person thinks the thought is true, the second question usually helps the person see (and admit) that the truth of the thought cannot be absolutely known.
The third question helps the person see that the absence of the troubling thought would instantly bring relief, if not joy. The person can see that s/he would feel good if the thought were not present.
The turn-around might be phrased as, "I could be happy without his love." The person is thereby shaken loose from an attached idea by considering one or more alternative perspectives.
BK's questions require a person to look at his/her thoughts and reconsider the usually automatic assumption that they are true. The questions help a person become more conscious about how thoughts are responsible for their feelings and how thoughts affect the way they see the world.
The problem I often hear from people who use BK’s approach is that thoughts keep arising and getting attached to, which necessitates endless examination.
Another similar approach, called “Life Training,” makes people aware of mind-talk and gives them “clearing” techniques for releasing their thoughts. Unfortunately, I never met anyone who used that approach and got free. People were always having new thoughts that needed to be cleared.
ATA simply bypasses this kind of thought-examination or any kind of thought-deconstruction altogether. I can only speculate about what happens as ATA is pursued. I assume that when attention shifts away from thoughts, the neuronal pathways associated with whatever causes attachment to thoughts cease to be used/reinforced, and the brain reverts to neuronal pathways associated with direct perception. This reversion presumably re-wires brain function and acts like a reset button or “clear” key on a calculator. For most people who pursue ATA thought structures sequentially collapse, but a few rare folks (the Buddha, Ramana, Niz?) seem to have a total collapse of all thought structures in one fell swoop. Even Tolle may have gotten the whole shebang in one big blast, but I haven’t read enough about his experience and realizations to feel confident about that.
AAR, I’d like to hear more about how mind needs to be informed for delusions or thought-structures to collapse. In what way does mind get informed so that a collapse occurs? I always thought that the collapse happens first, and only then does mind realize what’s happened. It always seemed to me that mind was the last one to the party.
The first breakthrough experience occurred after several months of ATA (about three hours per day) and three nights of deep samadhi triggered by ATA. The experience resulted in several immediate realizations that were monumental.
The second breakthrough arose mysteriously after two days of intense ATA at a silent Zen retreat. A koan spontaneously arose and precipitated an emotional experience accompanied by, or resulting in, a significant realization.
The third breakthrough arose as a result of an assault on ego and understanding that occurred in an interview with a teacher. That encounter generated a huge koan that did strange things to the body (constricted it violently) before a mind collapse occurred that triggered a simultaneous emotional release and realization.
The fourth breakthrough occurred literally "out of the blue." A powerful thought was suddenly seen to be a fantasy separating the body/mind from the truth of "what is."
All of the other breakthroughs occurred similarly, so there never seemed to be any mind involvement at all. It was as if the ATA was causing a collapsing of thought structures from the inside out.
BK recommends examining thoughts using the following approach:
1. Is the thought true?
2. Can you know absolutely that the thought is true?
3. How would you feel without the thought?
4. Turn the thought around, and consider various alternatives to the thought.
An example might be someone who thinks, "I need his love to be happy." Even if the person thinks the thought is true, the second question usually helps the person see (and admit) that the truth of the thought cannot be absolutely known.
The third question helps the person see that the absence of the troubling thought would instantly bring relief, if not joy. The person can see that s/he would feel good if the thought were not present.
The turn-around might be phrased as, "I could be happy without his love." The person is thereby shaken loose from an attached idea by considering one or more alternative perspectives.
BK's questions require a person to look at his/her thoughts and reconsider the usually automatic assumption that they are true. The questions help a person become more conscious about how thoughts are responsible for their feelings and how thoughts affect the way they see the world.
The problem I often hear from people who use BK’s approach is that thoughts keep arising and getting attached to, which necessitates endless examination.
Another similar approach, called “Life Training,” makes people aware of mind-talk and gives them “clearing” techniques for releasing their thoughts. Unfortunately, I never met anyone who used that approach and got free. People were always having new thoughts that needed to be cleared.
ATA simply bypasses this kind of thought-examination or any kind of thought-deconstruction altogether. I can only speculate about what happens as ATA is pursued. I assume that when attention shifts away from thoughts, the neuronal pathways associated with whatever causes attachment to thoughts cease to be used/reinforced, and the brain reverts to neuronal pathways associated with direct perception. This reversion presumably re-wires brain function and acts like a reset button or “clear” key on a calculator. For most people who pursue ATA thought structures sequentially collapse, but a few rare folks (the Buddha, Ramana, Niz?) seem to have a total collapse of all thought structures in one fell swoop. Even Tolle may have gotten the whole shebang in one big blast, but I haven’t read enough about his experience and realizations to feel confident about that.
AAR, I’d like to hear more about how mind needs to be informed for delusions or thought-structures to collapse. In what way does mind get informed so that a collapse occurs? I always thought that the collapse happens first, and only then does mind realize what’s happened. It always seemed to me that mind was the last one to the party.
