It might be helpful or useful to note that the discussions on this forum are occurring at several different levels, so let’s take a moment and consider what this means. Just for fun we can distinguish two primary groups of people here.
First, we have people who were once seekers, but subsequently found what they were looking for (truth, enlightenment, understanding, etc.). These people are not searching for anything. They are content. Most of them enjoy teaching and pointing other people toward the truth that they, themselves, found and ARE. In general, they recommend whatever path, practice, or activity that they think worked for them, even though most of them would say that there is no separate doer that ever does anything.
Many, if not most of the people in this group, experimented with many practices and activities, and they tell other people what they think are the most effective things to say. These people may poke certain aspects of each other’s understanding, statements, or methods of teaching, but they all agree that
1. The conventional world of things and events is an illusion
2. Personal selfhood is an illusion
3. Time and space are illusions
4. Cause and effect are illusions
5. There is nothing other than THIS, sometimes called “what is” or “the absolute” or “God”
6. THIS is all there is
7. THIS is vast and mysterious
8. There are no boundaries within THIS
9. THIS has no beginning or end
10. The mind (intellect) cannot understand THIS. Trying to understand THIS with the mind is useless, and doing so moves someone further from realizing the truth of THIS.
11. THIS is alive, intelligent, conscious, and whole.
12. The play of maya is an undulation within THIS, but it is not separate from THIS
13. The same awareness is looking out of the eyes of every living creature
14. There is no inside or outside in THIS
15. THIS is pure love
16. THIS is changeless
17. Whatever one might say about THIS must be both true and false at the same time
18. Most people in this group would say that THIS is playful and has a good sense of humor.
19. THIS is unfathomably deep and profound (“my Father’s house has many mansions”), and there is no end to what can be discovered in THIS.
20. THIS includes both the seen and the unseen
21. Nothing is impossible for THIS, and no rules apply to what THIS can do
(if anyone in the first group of people wants to add to this list or has any disagreement with this list of statements, please throw in your two cents worth)
The people in this group accept THIS exactly as it is, and have no desire to change THIS. They know that they ARE THIS and that THIS includes both the see-er and the seen.
At the other end of the spectrum there are people for whom these statements would make no sense. They live in a kind of consensus trance that is sometimes called “consensual reality.” They think that they are separate human beings living in a world of separate things and events. Very few people on this forum fall into this group because people on this forum are usually here because they already suspect or know that duality is an illusion.
Between these two ends of the spectrum lies the other group of people on the forum. Probably most people here are seekers who have had some sort of direct experience of THIS or people who have realized that the mind can never give them satisfactory answers to their existential questions. A great many people here have already had a major shift of some sort. They have either had a cosmic consciousness experience, or some sort of profound realization, and they are interested in discovering how to find and become unified with the truth (or discover their inherent unity with the truth.)
Some people have had a cosmic consciousness experience, seemingly lost it, and are now searching for a way to get it back. In doing so they are overlooking the importance of what is happening now. They have not yet seen through the illusion of personal selfhood, so they think that their past experience happened to a someone who can do something to make such an experience happen again. This is incorrect, but it is certainly understandable why they might think this.
My point in this thread is that we have many different levels of understanding present, and many different levels of discussions going on, and much of the time it may appear that we are talking past one another. This, and the resultant confusion, however, is perfect and is to be expected. Everyone is doing the best they can to understand what's going on.
People in the first category sometimes talk to people in the second category at the level of the dreamer. Sometimes they say outrageous things in order to shock the dreamer out of the dream by stopping the mind. Sometimes they refuse to meet the dreamer at the level of the dream and refuse to acknowledge that the dreamer even exists (the Tony Parsons approach). Because each teacher is using what seems like the best approach at the moment, the words may be seemingly contradictory. This is why one teacher may say that finding the truth is effortless and another teacher may say that finding the truth requires enormous effort. They are pointing to the same thing using different words.
First, we have people who were once seekers, but subsequently found what they were looking for (truth, enlightenment, understanding, etc.). These people are not searching for anything. They are content. Most of them enjoy teaching and pointing other people toward the truth that they, themselves, found and ARE. In general, they recommend whatever path, practice, or activity that they think worked for them, even though most of them would say that there is no separate doer that ever does anything.
Many, if not most of the people in this group, experimented with many practices and activities, and they tell other people what they think are the most effective things to say. These people may poke certain aspects of each other’s understanding, statements, or methods of teaching, but they all agree that
1. The conventional world of things and events is an illusion
2. Personal selfhood is an illusion
3. Time and space are illusions
4. Cause and effect are illusions
5. There is nothing other than THIS, sometimes called “what is” or “the absolute” or “God”
6. THIS is all there is
7. THIS is vast and mysterious
8. There are no boundaries within THIS
9. THIS has no beginning or end
10. The mind (intellect) cannot understand THIS. Trying to understand THIS with the mind is useless, and doing so moves someone further from realizing the truth of THIS.
11. THIS is alive, intelligent, conscious, and whole.
12. The play of maya is an undulation within THIS, but it is not separate from THIS
13. The same awareness is looking out of the eyes of every living creature
14. There is no inside or outside in THIS
15. THIS is pure love
16. THIS is changeless
17. Whatever one might say about THIS must be both true and false at the same time
18. Most people in this group would say that THIS is playful and has a good sense of humor.
19. THIS is unfathomably deep and profound (“my Father’s house has many mansions”), and there is no end to what can be discovered in THIS.
20. THIS includes both the seen and the unseen
21. Nothing is impossible for THIS, and no rules apply to what THIS can do
(if anyone in the first group of people wants to add to this list or has any disagreement with this list of statements, please throw in your two cents worth)
The people in this group accept THIS exactly as it is, and have no desire to change THIS. They know that they ARE THIS and that THIS includes both the see-er and the seen.
At the other end of the spectrum there are people for whom these statements would make no sense. They live in a kind of consensus trance that is sometimes called “consensual reality.” They think that they are separate human beings living in a world of separate things and events. Very few people on this forum fall into this group because people on this forum are usually here because they already suspect or know that duality is an illusion.
Between these two ends of the spectrum lies the other group of people on the forum. Probably most people here are seekers who have had some sort of direct experience of THIS or people who have realized that the mind can never give them satisfactory answers to their existential questions. A great many people here have already had a major shift of some sort. They have either had a cosmic consciousness experience, or some sort of profound realization, and they are interested in discovering how to find and become unified with the truth (or discover their inherent unity with the truth.)
Some people have had a cosmic consciousness experience, seemingly lost it, and are now searching for a way to get it back. In doing so they are overlooking the importance of what is happening now. They have not yet seen through the illusion of personal selfhood, so they think that their past experience happened to a someone who can do something to make such an experience happen again. This is incorrect, but it is certainly understandable why they might think this.
My point in this thread is that we have many different levels of understanding present, and many different levels of discussions going on, and much of the time it may appear that we are talking past one another. This, and the resultant confusion, however, is perfect and is to be expected. Everyone is doing the best they can to understand what's going on.
People in the first category sometimes talk to people in the second category at the level of the dreamer. Sometimes they say outrageous things in order to shock the dreamer out of the dream by stopping the mind. Sometimes they refuse to meet the dreamer at the level of the dream and refuse to acknowledge that the dreamer even exists (the Tony Parsons approach). Because each teacher is using what seems like the best approach at the moment, the words may be seemingly contradictory. This is why one teacher may say that finding the truth is effortless and another teacher may say that finding the truth requires enormous effort. They are pointing to the same thing using different words.
