...is obviously not a joyous experience for some body/minds. For others it results in bliss beyond imagining.
I remember reading an account somewhere of an adult's recollection of a game of monopoly he once played as a child. As a child newly introduced to the game, he got strongly attached to what was happening on the board, and began to suffer extreme angst as he began losing properties to his older opponents. At an extreme point of despair, he suddenly realized that it was all just a game, and he exploded with joy and laughter. The older opponents he was playing with did not understand why he jumped up, left the game, and mirthfully ran outside to celebrate his re-discovered freedom. On a larger scale this is the kind of freedom and joy that many people experience upon losing a sense of selfhood. It is like, "Oh, how wonderful, the weight of identity is gone!"
Why some people experience the opposite effect of this is one of the underlying themes of this thread. Segal seems to have found the joy of no-self after a decade of fear and suffering, but because the story (told by others) of her life following the writing of her book provides such mixed messages, it's hard to reach any conclusions.
Tolle is the only person who comes to mind who reportedly suffered extreme (almost suicidal) despair, had a major realization, woke up (?) and subsequently remained clear. Most of the other well-known teachers, as far as I can remember, did not report suffering extreme long-lasting despair in the way Tolle did.
I think the main point is that THIS is a mystery. There is no separate person who can do anything to become enlightened or to even stay enlightened. There is no escape because there is no one separate from THIS. Realizing this fact may help lead to the acceptance of whatever is happening. It may be that the body/mind of Segal suffered extreme fear and anguish precisely because there was strong attachment to the idea that life is supposed to be a certain way. Who knows?
Gangaji and other spiritual teachers often ask seekers if they can feel/be/accept "what is" without trying to run from it. This is the challenge that is presented to anyone who is psychologically resisting the obvious. Rather than giving advice on how to "fix" an apparent problem, there is simply the invitation to be.
I remember reading an account somewhere of an adult's recollection of a game of monopoly he once played as a child. As a child newly introduced to the game, he got strongly attached to what was happening on the board, and began to suffer extreme angst as he began losing properties to his older opponents. At an extreme point of despair, he suddenly realized that it was all just a game, and he exploded with joy and laughter. The older opponents he was playing with did not understand why he jumped up, left the game, and mirthfully ran outside to celebrate his re-discovered freedom. On a larger scale this is the kind of freedom and joy that many people experience upon losing a sense of selfhood. It is like, "Oh, how wonderful, the weight of identity is gone!"
Why some people experience the opposite effect of this is one of the underlying themes of this thread. Segal seems to have found the joy of no-self after a decade of fear and suffering, but because the story (told by others) of her life following the writing of her book provides such mixed messages, it's hard to reach any conclusions.
Tolle is the only person who comes to mind who reportedly suffered extreme (almost suicidal) despair, had a major realization, woke up (?) and subsequently remained clear. Most of the other well-known teachers, as far as I can remember, did not report suffering extreme long-lasting despair in the way Tolle did.
I think the main point is that THIS is a mystery. There is no separate person who can do anything to become enlightened or to even stay enlightened. There is no escape because there is no one separate from THIS. Realizing this fact may help lead to the acceptance of whatever is happening. It may be that the body/mind of Segal suffered extreme fear and anguish precisely because there was strong attachment to the idea that life is supposed to be a certain way. Who knows?
Gangaji and other spiritual teachers often ask seekers if they can feel/be/accept "what is" without trying to run from it. This is the challenge that is presented to anyone who is psychologically resisting the obvious. Rather than giving advice on how to "fix" an apparent problem, there is simply the invitation to be.
